Who will look after Nepal's returned gods and goddesses?

Undoubtedly the Nepal Heritage Recovery Campaign has been a success. In less than five years it has led the identification and return to Nepal of about 160 religious icons — statues, paintings, and more. These were stolen from this country and displayed or stored in public museums and private collections globally since Nepal opened to the world in the 1950s. 

Now what? The aim of the NHRC is to have these gods and goddesses (devi-devta in Nepali) returned to their communities, we learn in today’s chat with Alisha Sijapati, a founding member and former director of the campaign. Some have made that journey, such as the Lakshmi-Narayan statue taken from Patko Tole in Patan in 1984, but most have not. Blocking their way is a lack of resources and underpinning that, an absence of understanding of the importance of heritage to the health of this country, she adds. 

Today’s episode is an update to our conversation in October 2021 with NHRC member Rohan Mishra, titled Recovering Nepal’s Stolen Art and Restoring its Culture. I encourage you to search for it wherever you’re listening now. If you want more of these interviews, sign up to be a supporter wherever you’re listening by clicking on the Support the Show link.

For those of you in Nepal, the NHRC will take another step towards raising the profile of the living heritage of the stolen gods and goddesses in an exhibition at Patan Museum from July 31st to August 4th.  

Resources

Nepal Heritage Recovery Campaign

Previous episode - Recovering Nepal’s Stolen Art and Restoring its Culture 

Lain Singh Bandel 

Juergen Schick

Chapters

• 6:42 Joined Nepali Times newspaper
• 14:43 A huge discovery — but...
• 24:55 Gods around the corner
• 32:57 Identity also at stake

Transcript

Alisha Sijapati: 0:00

I woke up at seven in the morning and I called Kunda Sir, I said, I think I found something. And I called Kanak Mani Dixit, I called Roshan Mishra, I called Rohit Ranjitkar and I'm like I think I found something.

Marty: 0:26

Hi, everyone. Undoubtedly, the Nepal Heritage Recovery Campaign has been a success. In less than five years, it has led the identification and return to Nepal of about 160 religious icons: statues, paintings, and more. These were stolen from this country and displayed or stored in public museums and private collections globally since Nepal opened to the world in the 1950s. Now what? The aim of the NHRC is to have these gods and goddesses(devi-devta in Nepali) return to their communities, we learn in today's chat with Alisha Sijapati, a founding member and former director of the campaign. Some have made that journey, such as the Lakshmi-Narayan statue taken from Patko Tole in Patan in 1984, but most have not. Blocking their way is a lack of resources and underpinning that an absence of understanding of the importance of heritage to the health of this country, she adds. Today's episode is an update to our conversation in October, 2021 with NHRC member Rohan Mishra, titled, Recovering Nepal's Stolen Art and Restoring Its Culture. I encourage you to search for it wherever you're listening now. If you want more of these interviews, sign up to be a supporter wherever you're listening by clicking on the link called Support the Show. For those of you in Nepal, the NHRC will take another step towards raising the profile of the living heritage of the stolen gods and goddesses in an exhibition at Patan Museum from July 31st to August 4th. Please listen now to my chat with Alicia Sijapati. Alicia Sijapati welcome to Nepal Now podcast.

Alisha Sijapati: 2:29

Thank you.

Marty: 2:31

We are here to talk about the work that you've been doing on a very successful campaign. But before we get there, I'd like you to tell me a little about your personal background where you were born, went to school, some of the previous work you did maybe.

Alisha Sijapati: 2:48

Currently I am a writer. I've been a journalist for over 11 to 12 years, and I worked in the Himalyan Times, the Kathmandu Post, and then the last journalistic stint I had was in Nepali Times. I've been on a writing break for a while now, but I'm starting it again. I'm resuming writing again, so I'm looking forward to that. Well, currently I am the founding member of Nepal Heritage Recovery Campaign, which, started in 2021. And, so right now we just concluded an international conference on recovery of cultural heritage and, we are looking forward to welcoming everybody to attend the multimedia exhibition, which is titled Absent Gods: Nepal's Lost Heritage, in Patan Museum. We are hoping that, we spread heritage advocacy and education to people through this multimedia exhibition. It's, starting from July 31st until August 4th. So it's a five day exhibition.

Marty: 4:03

Okay. So people have to be really careful not to miss it. It's those five days. Okay. So we'll take careful note of that, which is great, and then we're gonna rewind. And so you were a journalist for a quite a long time, many years. So with the NHRC how did you get into that? How did you decide to stop being a writer, a journalist, for a while, and then get into the campaign?

Alisha Sijapati: 4:29

Well, NHRC for me happened while I was a journalist. And, well, it's a very interesting story actually. So in 2019, I had, just left the Kathmandu Post and I got a call from a friend from South Asia, who's looking for a media consultant for four days. Do you, want to join? And, so I reconnected with Kanak Mani Dixit and so we were, talking and we were having coffee. And then he asked me,'I really want to know what you've been up to because you've written, fantastic articles in the Kathmandu Post, especially in regards to cultural heritage. So what are your thoughts'? And then I said, I want to pursue Masters in Cultural Heritage studies. And the reason I left the Kathmandu Post was I needed a break. I was already working there for five years, and I thought, I need to go beyond that. I need to do something. So I had just looked at Central European University for Master's in Cultural Heritage studies. But I think I kind of manifested that and he said, we should talk more about it because I'm also interested in cultural heritage. So we met, he called me one day and we were having coffee and he brought out this idea that, you know, there needs to be somebody who wants to work on bringing back stolen, gods to Nepal. And I had no idea. I mean, there was always this conversation that was happening around there are stolen statues. There was a big exhibition by Joy Lynn Davis. I knew of all those, all of those things, but, I didn't know what to do about it because we knew that most of these statues, artifacts or religious statuaries are out there. Maybe most of them have been stolen, but we didn't know how to get it back. And then one fine day, got a call. Kanak Sir suggested that if I wanted to join Nepali Times. I went and met Kunda Dixit. was an instant yes. And I joined in Jan. 2020. And, one of the first articles that I did was Replicating Nepal's Stolen Gods. That story pushed me to learn more about this because I also had to submit a Master's research proposal for Central European University. Then when I started working on Replicating Nepal's Stolen Gods, and I got in touch with Bhai Raja Shrestha of Patko Tol, who knew of Lakshmi-Narayan's theft. And then I spoke to Rabindra Puri, who runs a museum of stolen art in Nepal. And then I started looking more and more, and I realized through that particular article that, okay, there are so many things out there and we don't know how to bring it back. We don't know who to talk to. And that was my research proposal in 2020. Okay, how do we bring this back? There needs to be a proper research done. And, I submitted the proposal COVID hit. And in April, 2020 I, got an admission, and in July 2020 my grandmother passed away. So I had to defer for a year because I was not in that mental state where...

Marty: 8:11

I think you wrote about that.

Alisha Sijapati: 8:12

Yes. So I had to be I wasn't mentally prepared to be sitting online because I wanted to go to Vienna and learn about the country and the city, and it wouldn't have made any sense if I was doing it online. So I deferred for a year. They agreed. I'm very thankful, and I was in Nepali Times for good one and a half year after that. And in that one year that I deferred, everything changed in terms of heritage repatriation. It just took off. It was a floodgate that happened, because I think the first lockdown that we had, I think it was from March from March to I think July or August we had the lockdown. And then around December I got a call from Mohan Mainali and Kanak Mani Dixit, that they are working on the docu(mentary) series, titled Saglo Samaj, and one of the episodes was on stolen heritage.

Marty: 9:25

So at this point, end of sorry, end of 2020, is there yet any talk about setting up the NHRC or is just this work going on independently?

Alisha Sijapati: 9:35

The, work was, just going on independently. Okay. And because there was COVID, the work did stop. I mean, there was no work really happening at all. There was a talk but we were also told that there's something we have to do, but there needs to be more research. And for research you need money, and nobody has that. Nobody knows from where to begin. And then in the end of 2020, around, I think the end of December and early Jan, I had to also write a story for Nepali Times, for Saglo Samaj. And I had this very bad habit. I used to start writing at 10:00 PM at night with a cup of dark black coffee. And I used to finish everything that I used to write by 3:00 AM in the morning. So that is the time when my editor/ publisher used to wake up at 3:00 AM So I used to send an article to him at 3:00 AM. I used to tell him goodnight, and he used to tell me good morning. And then when I finished submitting the article to Kunda Sir, and I was just flipping through Stolen Images of Nepal, and then on page 77,

Marty: 10:53

Sorry, tell me, Stolen Images of Nepal is a book, a well known book that I've certainly heard of by tell me about it.

Alisha Sijapati: 11:05

of the book is, Lain Singh Bangdel, who was an artist who was an art historian. And, I think he was just a lovely man with whatever I know of. And, so he came up with this book, Stolen Images of Nepal. And at the same time, coincidentally, there was another Deutsche personality. His name is Jürgen Schick. he's very much alive.

Marty: 11:34

German.

Alisha Sijapati: 11:35

Yes, German. And, he was documenting, he was going around taking photos and trying to protect Nepal's heritage in his own ways. And then Lain Singh Bangdel found out. And then Jürgen Schick and Lain Singh Bangdel shared pictures with each other. I would say that many of the stolen statues, which has been found abroad in museums or auction houses abroad is mostly thanks to these books, Stolen Images of Nepal and Jürgen Schick's book, titled The Gods Are Leaving the Country.

Marty: 12:15

Okay. So they were incredibly important to this movement overall.

Alisha Sijapati: 12:19

Yes.

Marty: 12:19

Okay. Continue on the story about how you came to the NHRC or how the NHRC came to be and you along with it.

Alisha Sijapati: 12:28

So when I did my first story in 2020, Replicating Nepal's Stolen Gods, I got in touch with Roshan Mishra, I got in touch with Rohit Ranjitkar, and I was already talking to Kanak Mani Dixit. So I was already in conversation with these passionate people about stolen heritage. And during that Saglo Samaj documentary, Joy Lynn Davis, who had found, or I would say figured out, where Laxmi-Narayan of Patko Tol Patan is located, which was in Dallas Museum of Art, Joy Lynn mentioned that the FBI has confiscated Lakshmi-Narayan from Dallas Museum of Art, and it can be handed over to Nepal embassy at any given point. And then that night when I finished writing the story and everything, I was flipping through Lain Singh Bangdel's books because I already had two glasses of coffee, so I was not going to sleep anyway. So I just flipping through the book and on page 77 there was Uma Mahesvar, which is an iconography of Shiva and Parvati. And I kind of had a feeling that I've seen this somewhere. And I went to the website of Denver Art Museum for some reason. And I kind of felt, you know, there's something, I've seen this somewhere. And I was surprised because it was the same thing and I didn't trust myself. I didn't trust myself at all. So I only slept for three hours. I woke up at seven in the morning and I called Kunda Sir, I said, I think I found something. And I called Kanak Mani Dixit, I called Roshan Mishra, I called Rohit Ranjitkar and I'm like I think I found something. And then, you know, I went to, I went up to Nepali Times office with the book, and I told them I think it's the same thing? We were zooming in everything, every scratch, and oh, this is the same thing. Then I went to meet Kanak Mani Dixit, who was right across in Dhokaima, so he said this is the same thing. Then I called a couple of other people and we were all excited. So we are like, okay, we are going to write about this, that, you know, a journalist from Nepali Times found it. But life really humbles you down. It wasn't me who was the first person who figured that out. It was Kanak Mani Dixit himself, in 1999. He had already written an article in Himal South Asian that Uma Mahesvar from Gahiti Patan is in Denver Art Museum.

Marty: 15:21

Okay, but did he forget that he had written the article?

Alisha Sijapati: 15:24

Yeah, he had forgotten that he'd written it.

Marty: 15:26

And so he wrote the article, but no one also followed it up at the time.

Alisha Sijapati: 15:29

Yes. No one followed up. In fact, in 2013, Bhrikuti Rai from Nepali Times had also mentioned in one of her articles. Then I realized that we've all written about it over the time. You know, there's been so many stories on it. Right after the article that I did, that Laxmi-Narayan was coming back and we've just found Uma Mahesva of Gahiti and it was the age of social media. Everyone was staying home, had nothing to do. So I think it really amplified from there. And after that we had people, journalists, reaching out to us from Denver Magazine. And then we had people reaching out to us from the New York Times. And it was just getting fast. And then I got in touch with Lost Arts of Nepal. Just for reference, Lost Arts of Nepal is a purely anonymous social media page who does research on antiquities illicit trafficking of antiquities matches gods or statues, and publishes it on social media as breaking news, with the juxtaposition of, okay, this particular statue was in this place, maybe in Patan or in Kathmandu, now it's in this auction house or it's in this museum.

Marty: 16:56

Right. Very prolific. i follow it on Instagram and like daily there are many posts.

Alisha Sijapati: 17:02

Initially when I started writing articles, I had to tell my friends if they could share it and I had to tell people if you can retweet it or share it, but over the time I didn't have to tell anybody. So I think that was the whole idea that, okay, this is getting attention now.

Marty: 17:21

You're getting busier and busier who said'we need to kind of formalize this work', or did it happen that way?

Alisha Sijapati: 17:30

The whole idea of bringing back the gods and goddess, we were also not systematized because we had no idea: who do we talk to? Do we talk to the cops? Do we talk to the government in the US or France, or how does it work here? And most of the antiquities or our devi-devta that has been coming back, they are through bureaucratic process and very rarely voluntarily. When I look at it, it was Lakshmi-Narayan that kicked it off for everybody. But for me personally, I would say that it was Uma Mahesva of Gahiti that kickstarted everything, because then I got in touch with Dilendra Shrestha, who was the resident of Patko Tol, Patan, and he was also really involved in getting back Lakshmi-Narayan. And then we had Sanjay Adhikari, a very fascinating personality I must say. Very young, very dynamic. And he was a legal person and he knew how to go about things. So Sanjay Adhikari and I used to go to Department of Archaeology every day to ask what is really happening. So apparently without DoA's official document, the government can't go ahead with it because there's a whole bureaucratic process, right? The official document goes to DoA, then it goes to Ministry of Culture, which is also joined with tourism and civil aviation. And then from that it passes on to Ministry of Foreign Affairs. And then after Ministry of Foreign Affairs, it goes to the Nepal Embassy in whichever country it has been located to. And the museums will try their best to intimidate you. Then all of us got involved and because there was so many things happening, then we knew that'okay, we need to formalize it, we cannot just be a citizen led voluntary group, because nobody's going to take us seriously'. Otherwise, if I as a citizen just call Nepal Embassy and tell them,'listen, you have to do this', then they're not gonna do it. Because when I wrote the Uma Maheswar article, I thought you know, the museum will just send it. I was very naive, but then I realized that we have to do something more And that's exactly why we knew we had to be a formal group. We had to come up with something concrete and it was a nonprofit organization. So that's how NHRC started with six of us basically. Then we had Riddhi Baba Pradhan, who was also the former DG, Director General, of Department of Archaeology as the chairperson. And we have Kanak Mani Dixit, Dilendra Shrestha, Rohit Ranjitkar, Roshan Mishra, Sanjay Adhikari and myself. And I came in as the director.

Marty: 20:29

Okay, so that was really interesting. I interviewed Roshan, I think it was October, 2020... 2020 or 2021?

Alisha Sijapati: 20:37

I think it was 2022. I was already in Vienna, so...

Marty: 20:40

Eh, okay. And at that time I remember, him saying that you had tracked down, identified, 25 stolen objects. That was near the beginning, and this is at least roughly two, three years later. The campaign has done a lot. And so I'm wondering, number one, if you can compare where you're at now to where you were then, and whether or not it's kind of a fair way to assess the campaign by counting how many objects have been identified and or repatriated.

Alisha Sijapati: 21:23

I think a couple

21:24

of months back, Sanjay Adhikari and I were speaking

Alisha Sijapati: 21:26

about it and going back to time when we started. He, said that, you know, even if Lakshmi-Narayan comes back, if I just managed to bring one devi-devta back home, I think I've done my job. Now looking at it, we have identified, with obviously Lost Arts of Nepal as our advisor, we have worked on bringing back over 160 since we started. And if we combine how many artifacts that have come before the campaign started and after, overall we now are at 198.

Marty: 22:10

Wow. So that's a big increase from when I spoke to him.

Alisha Sijapati: 22:16

Yes. The, last I remember of all the artifacts that were returned prior to the campaign started, it was not even at 50. So after the campaign, it increased drastically.

Marty: 22:31

Okay. So one of the main reasons I asked you to come here today is because I, as an outsider looking at media, consider this campaign a huge success. And I don't see that many huge successes around me in Nepal. Is that how you see it also, having been there from the beginning?

Alisha Sijapati: 22:58

Well, I think we've just been so immersed. I would say that when we initially started I think we were all naive to think that we would get support from people. It has been a success, yes. But how do you measure success? I think that's one thing we're still looking at, and I think the measure of success is we have brought them back and it makes us very happy. But at the same time, we all need to understand that and I did my master's thesis on the return of stolen gods, so for me in my head okay, what do we do when it returns back to Nepal? And it goes to the museums. It cannot stay in the museum, it has to go back to the communities, because it was stolen from the community it has to go back to the community. That is the idea of Nepal Heritage Recovery Campaign. Any stolen statues from a public space or temple it has to go back to the community. And for us, the main fulfilling part is that, you know, it goes back to the community to where it was lost.

Marty: 24:08

Right so I come from a culture that's used to seeing sacred objects displayed somewhere, usually in a museum, right, where you all stand back and look at them, don't get too close. Read about them, understand them, admire them. But almost all of these objects, I'm assuming, like you say, were part of a neighborhood temple that someone would visit once a day, twice a day, or at least once a week, or even maybe a smaller, not even a temple. I think for people who haven't been here and seen it, they would be surprised to see how much they're incorporated in day to day surroundings in life. Maybe you can try to explain that better than I can as someone who's from here.

Alisha Sijapati: 24:55

I'll give you an example of this. So in Bhaktapur I think. Yeah, I think it's in Nasmana Tole, the statue, the stone figure is of Lakshmi-Narayan. It's same as in Patan, in Patko Tol, Patan. It's an androgeneous devi-devta, so half is Vishnu, half is Lakshmi right. So in Bhaktapur, women, or pregnant women or family, they used to go to this particular place to worship these devi-devta, and they used to pour milk on, the deity, especially with pregnant women, because it used to signify that, okay, if it trinkles down to the, breast of a woman, then it's a girl, it's a baby girl. If it goes to the male part, it's a boy. They used to have this faith. And one fine day the statue's stolen. There was a big chaos to what happened. People may call it, oh, you know, this is ridiculous. Many people would call it ridiculous, but for them, you cannot call something that someone believes in ridiculous. You need to be in a space where you need to respect people's values, people's belief. And you cannot just, Ah, this is not important. It's just in their head, this is just in the psychology. And I think all of these gods and goddesses that have been stolen, it is because there's a lack of respect for the values and the beliefs that the people have, the community have. So I think that's what has happened.

Marty: 26:39

Are you saying that people from cultures outside of Nepal don't understand and respect that, or even within Nepal?

Alisha Sijapati: 26:48

I think it's, both because, during the documentary screening of Have you Seen My Gods? I was asked this question,'You know, you keep saying they, they you're just putting your finger at a foreigner and it's, you Nepalis who've stolen it. And, my answer to that was we're both victims as well as enablers. It was a very, very conscious choice that happened. And I think all of us know that it happened from 1950s, because I think the idea of, going back to your question, I think the foreigners I wouldn't just say foreigners, people outside Nepal exoticized our heritage, exoticized our devi-devta that was out there. So when they were coming in, they loved what they saw. And they were coming in, they were taking photos and someone told me from Naxal that, you know, there were a group of white people walking in and they used to bring catalogs. So, you know,'I want this. Can you show me where this is? And I want to pay this much for you.'

Marty: 28:04

So someone had assembled photos that were taken previously and Wow! You said something earlier. You said that'we were all naive thinking that everyone would want to help us in this cause'. Obviously the people on the other end, in the museums or these private institutions that have the objects, I can see why they wouldn't want to help because they don't want to give them up. But are you also referring to other people when you say that?

Alisha Sijapati: 28:35

I might get into trouble for saying this, but I have to admit that there's a problem in philanthropy in Nepal, and heritage is a largely underfunded area, not just repatriation forget repatriation tangible and intangible heritage both. We are living heritage, bringing back these gods and goddesses is part of living heritage. Whatever work the campaign does is all about living heritage. But apart from that, there are other heritage as well. Kusunda language is dying, it's on the verge of extinction. Then there's other tangible heritage too. You know, if it was not for international aids that were coming in during 2015 earthquake, it would have been very difficult for us to rebuild what we have. And, except for the Durbar squares in Kathmandu Valley, I don't think other places have been preserved. And we talk about, natural heritage: the government has been sending tourists to Mount Everest, but do they understand what natural heritage means? I think there's a big problem in, within the government, they do not understand what heritage really entails. They have ministry of culture, but I don't really think they understand the difference between culture and heritage. They do not know what they're really doing, that's what I personally feel because there's tourism and civil aviation also involved. I usually say that culture is, culture gets the last bit of it. Whenever there's a budget, announcement, tourism and civil aviation takes the massive chunk and culture gets last. We've hardly gotten any support from the government. We thought that, okay, we have to go beyond Kathmanduu Valley as well. We have to document temples. We have to document these statues so that it does not get stolen because has anybody documented to what has happened outside Kathmandu Valley? Mostly from Mustang or Dolpo, but what about mid-Tarai? What about in Nuwakot? Kathmandu Valley was largely exoticized by the white scholars who came in and they documented it all. And it's an irony because we are using their papers, their books, to find our gods and goddesses now. And thanks to them for that. I also have to be grateful on that part. But they didn't help. And you know, there are so many scholars right now that, they're largely celebrated for the work they did in Nepal, but at the same time as they are celebrated, we should also ask questions. We need to be critical. And the other problem is even within people in Nepal, you know, I've been often told, oh, what are you doing with this? Why are you bringing it back? Because the museums don't take good care of it. With recently whatever happened in Department of Archaeology's press conference. I don't know if you saw it or not, that a few paintings had been returned, to Nepal, and then the Department of Archaeology had it laid out on the table and on the wall with thumb pins. Nepal Heritage recovery campaign were asked why are you doing this? We cannot take responsibility for everything, and we are not funded. We thought we would've been funded, but we've been largely voluntary. And it's really sad because we thought that there needs to be some kind of ownership, but the ownership is not coming from anywhere. There's just been complaint. People love to wallow. Sometimes I wish someone from the Parliament would speak about it, someone from the cabinet would speak about it, but it's not in their agenda. Why am I doing this if you ask? I'm doing this because I believe that if we do not look after our heritage now what are we going to teach our children and the future generation? Every single person, every other children we know they're speaking English. They're not speaking their own indigenous language, forget Nepali at this point, right. You know those are very small things, but those are important things as well. We are losing our identity. I We've hit a crisis moment and I don't think people really quite understand that. So it's really, really, sad for us at the moment for how people perceive heritage. If we do not have culture and heritage, there's no point for tourism. And unfortunately the National Museum is underfunded as well. DoA is underfunded and I think since 1980s or seventies, when Singha Durbar burnt down, Department of Archaeology have not had a permanent office. The office that they have right now in Thapathali, that's the Office of National Archives, it's not Department of Archaeology's office. And that shows the priority. If the government does not show interest in heritage, how do you expect the public to show interest in heritage? I'm not blaming Department of Archaeology at all. Let me just make that clear. DoA has been very helpful, particularly Saubhagya Pradhananga, who is the DG right now, and Sarita Subedi. I understand their issues as well because you know the funds that goes from Ministry of Finance, then it goes to Ministry of Culture, Tourism, Civil Aviation. It gets divided, it goes to Culture. They divide themselves for their own projects and their staff in the Department of Culture. And then the budget gets cut there and it goes to DoA. And from there the budget gets cut and it goes to National Museum. And I don't think people in Nepal really understand, or they cannot empathize with DoA or National Museum. They want to do good, they want to do so much for the country and to improve how heritage is looked at. But their hands are tied because of finances and the government does not care. So what is going to be the future of Department of Archaeology, and especially when it's just centered in Kathmandu and with very little resources, and they do not have space to go forward with. Okay? They want to do workshop on something. They want to enhance their skills. I mean, come on, they don't even have a permanent office. And then you're here talking about, oh, you know, this is how they handle artifacts. Because they do not have those resources. The government is not giving them space for resources And then people like us, we end up being frustrated.

Marty: 35:40

So would you say that that is one of the main priorities now of the campaign to somehow get the government, the wider government beyond the Department of Archaeology, to endorse not only the work you're doing, but like you say, the key importance of heritage within the country?

Alisha Sijapati: 36:04

Marty, there's so much that we would want to do, but our hands are tied, because we don't have the funds We would all love to be a full-timer, but at the end of the day, we also have to look into our mental health and physical health.

Marty: 36:21

You're using'we' all the time, so you are still part of the campaign?

Alisha Sijapati: 36:26

Yeah, well, I'm no longer the director of the campaign. I am the founding member of course. But being the director, and being a voluntary director at that, is not easy. It's really difficult and you're a full-timer, and then you also have to look at other aspects. Passion cannot feed you and you need something that feeds you. Obviously, I still help people. If I get a call, I go about help people, but charity begins at home. If you don't look after yourself, how can you help other people? And I've been here for like past two years, since I finished my Master's, and it's been difficult. And we really thought that we would have gotten some help for the campaign, we would have gotten some funds, but...

Marty: 37:18

Are you saying that the work of the campaign is in jeopardy, the continuation of the work?

Alisha Sijapati: 37:24

I wouldn't say that it's in jeopardy, but what I would say is that we are the founding members. It cannot just be limited to us. If someday we pass away, everything goes with us. This has to go out there, the knowledge has to be passed on and we are looking forward to getting new people. The work that we do is not really shown out there. It cannot be out there as well. It's not performative, we are actually doing the work. And I have to say that we've also not received the due credit that we are supposed to get. But the whole idea is we don't care. We are not doing it for the award, we are doing it for the community and for the people. And that is more important for us, because it's also our heritage and you know, if we do good work, it's just going to come back to us, double the work that we do. All good things will come back to us. Obviously this is not the best time to be saying, oh, we need volunteers, but we are looking forward to having a new team, a passionate team, where they want to work and they think this has potential. Because I think for us, that is the only thing we want. That there needs to be advocacy, there needs to be education on heritage, and this particularly living heritage is so important. So we want new team of people with fresh perspectives, fresh eyes, to be like, okay, this is our heritage and we want to work on it. And if they think that this is something that they could find fundings for, if they can find grants for, we are more than happy. It's important that the new generation has to take on the baton. I think we've done enough work already and we just want new people to come in and take ownership of their heritage.

Marty: 39:24

Right. Okay. Well look, this has been a bit sobering learning about all of this, but at the same time, I do want to reiterate that I think the campaign has been successful, so congratulations to you and your collaborators on that. And, I wish you much good luck going forward as a journalist, as a heritage person, combination of those things somehow. All the best, and thank you very much.

Alisha Sijapati: 39:56

Thank you, Marty. And the last thing that I would want to add is that this whole process of getting back statues, paintings, for anything there is, there's a battalion behind. There's like a big force and those people don't really come forward and take the credit for that. And I think I would take this moment to thank each and every single person that has been behind in this. I'm not trying to be modest, but there are so many other people who have done wonderful job in helping us and we helping them. So yeah. Thank you.

Marty: 40:35

Thanks again to Alisha Sijapati for sharing her time and updating me on the work of the Nepal Heritage Recovery Campaign. Let me know what you thought of our chat. You can message me by clicking on Send a Text in the show notes or reach out on social media: we're(at)nepalnowpod on most channels. I'll talk to you next time.