Nepal Now: On the Move
We're talking with the people migrating from, to, and within this Himalayan country located between China and India. You'll hear from a wide range of Nepali men and women who have chosen to leave the country for better work or education opportunities. Their stories will help you understand what drives people — in Nepal and worldwide — to mortgage their property or borrow huge sums of money to go abroad, often leaving their loved ones behind.
Despite many predictions, migration from Nepal has not slowed in recent years, except briefly during the height of the Covid-19 pandemic. About 1 million Nepalis leave every year to work at jobs outside the country. Tens of thousands go abroad to study. Far fewer return to Nepal to settle. The money ('remittances') that workers send home to their families accounts for 25% of the country's GDP, but migration impacts Nepal in many other ways. We'll be learning from migrants, experts and others about the many cultural, social, economic and political impacts of migration.
Your host is Marty Logan, a Canadian journalist who has lived in Nepal's capital Kathmandu off and on since 2005. Marty started the show in 2020 as Nepal Now.
Nepal Now: On the Move
Korean project prepares former migrant workers to stay in Nepal
Today you will hear the last episode that I recorded in Kathmandu. I had long wanted to talk to a representative from a so-called labour receiving country – one that hires some of the hundreds of thousands of Nepali migrant workers who leave home each year to earn their livelihoods abroad. Although it was difficult to speak to someone from an embassy in Kathmandu, I did make contact with a project of the Korean International Development Agency, or KOICA, called K-HaMi. It focuses on reintegrating workers after they return to Nepal from South Korea.
What I learned was how complicated that process can be. It includes the regular pre-departure training, plus more if, at the start of the migration process, a worker is already interested in learning about reintegration. Then there are choices of various skills training while abroad and finally, more training after workers return. It feels a little like choosing to stay in Nepal can actually be more work than signing up for another job abroad.
Unfortunately, because this project started only in 2023, there seems to be a lack of hard data on its impact to date. But my guest Simran Shah says she feels positive that the project is having an impact. One correction: in the interview Simran says that K-HaMi has worked with 2,500 migrants to date. That figure should be more than 10,000 migrant workers.
Resources
K-HaMi project on YouTube
2024 report on returnee migrant workers’ experiences in Nepal
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Music by audionautix.com.
Thank you to PEI in Bakhundole for the use of their studios.
Nepal Now is produced and hosted by Marty Logan.
We are trying to create an environment where migrant workers can share the knowledge and experiences learned in Korea and apply that over here in Nepal
Marty Logan:Hi everyone. Greetings from Canada. Before getting into this week's episode, I am making a final plea for you listeners to fill out the very short survey that I've posted online. Your responses will be really instrumental in my decision about the direction that the show will take from its new base here. I'll close the survey on Friday. Thank you very much to those whose hearts I've just moved, and to those who have already responded. Today, you'll hear the last episode that I recorded in Kathmandu. I had long wanted to talk to a representative from a so-called labour-receiving country, one that hires some of the hundreds of thousands of Nepali migrant workers who leave home each year to earn their livelihoods abroad. Although it was difficult to speak to someone from an embassy in Kathmandu, I did make contact with a project of the Korean International Development Agency, or KOICA, called K-HaMi. It focuses on reintegrating workers after they return to Nepal from South Korea. What I learned was how complicated that process can be. It includes the regular pre-departure training plus more if, at the start of the migration process, a worker is already interested in learning about reintegration. Then there are choices of various skills training while abroad, and finally, more training after workers return. It feels a little like choosing to stay in Nepal can actually be more work than signing up for another job abroad. Unfortunately, because this project started only in 2023, there seems to be a lack of hard data on its impact to date. But my guest, Simran Shah, says she feels positive that the project is having an impact. One correction: in the interview, Simran says that K-HaMi has worked with 2,500 migrants to date. That figure should be more than 10,000 migrant workers. Simran Shah, welcome to Nepal Now: On the Move podcast.
Simran Shah:Thank you Marty. Thank you for having me.
Marty Logan:Very happy to have you here today. The first question I wanted to ask you is, South Korea has a really positive reputation as far as I know, as a labour receiving country. I think partly because the salaries, the wages are said to be maybe a bit higher than average, and also people stay there a bit longer than average up to, I think five years even in some cases. So given those positive attributes about migration to South Korea, why is it that a programme like this is actually needed?
Simran Shah:So I believe that Korea is a popular destination at the moment, because a lot of pe migrant workers go to Korea through the EPS sorry, employment permit system programme. And it provides good wages, safer workspaces, and also better working conditions in comparison to other countries at the moment. As more Nepalis go to Korea for work, there's a growing interest in their economic and socio-psychological reintegration after they come back after completing their work terms in Korea. So our project, the KOICA reintegration project, or K-HaMi, basically focuses on the reintegration aspect. K-HaMi Stands for Korea Happy Migration. And HaMi in Nepali also means'we'. Our philosophy is connecting the dots to ensure sustainable dignified, reintegration of migrants returning from Korea. The K-HaMi project is a bilateral initiative between the governments of Korea and Nepal, which is being implemented by KOICA. The project began from 2022 and is scheduled to run until 2028. The main goal of this project is to, contribute to Nepal's economic development and increase employment, by creating a virtuous cycle to support the returnees. The project provides educational training across all the three stages of migration from pre-migration, to your time in Korea, and after you return home. We believe that after coming back, most workers are, somewhat lost on what to do, and some of them want to go back. Rather than just provide them reemployment, we focus on their entrepreneurship development reintegration information education and so forth. We provide not only the reintegration support, but we also try helping them throughout the migration journey.
Marty Logan:So the reintegration obviously, physically, begins when they return. But it's something that they should have talked about already while they were in Korea. They should at least be aware that this is an issue, if not learn something more specific about what it actually means and how they can prepare.
Simran Shah:At present, we try to connect with, migrant workers who are about to leave for Korea through the EPS programme itself. The EPS programme provides a pre-departure orientation training. So during that six day orientation programme, we try connecting with, the potential migrant workers. And we also provide them the financial literacy education training, suicide prevention training, and, also vision establishment training. At the migration stage, we provide them with, technical skills development training which they can do while they're still working in Korea, and also entrepreneurship training. We also provide the migrant workers' families with financial literacy training. and after reintegration, we provide them with reintegration information training, advanced entrepreneurship training, and connect them with startup funding as well.
Marty Logan:Before you go any further, can you remind me how many workers roughly are going every year?
Simran Shah:I think around 10,000 workers go every year.
Marty Logan:And then of the people who go, they will all more or less return at some point. How many people will take this reintegration training? Is it 10% or 5%? I'm sure it's not everyone is able to take the training. That's just too many people.
Simran Shah:At the moment we have a specific criteria of selection. We do have open applications for all returnees, then through that we have a selection process. I'm not sure about the exact number percentage, but we've roughly interacted with around 2,500 people at the moment,
Marty Logan:And that's in two or three years?
Simran Shah:From 2023 we started, so around two from within two years.
Marty Logan:Let's get a bit more specific. So if I join this reintegration project, what exactly am I going to learn? Do I have a choice of what I take, like what training or what information? Is there, are there different streams for different people? Or is it one size fits all in, in this project?
Simran Shah:It's basically divided into stages, right? We provide trainings in different stages. Before leaving, since we connect through the EPS pre-departure orientation training, basically we provide three trainings over there. So whoever wants to take training before leaving, those are the only three we we provide. The first is financial literacy education training. The second is vision establishment training, and the third is suicide prevention. Then in the migration stage, while they're in Korea, they can select what type of training they want to participate in. We provide entrepreneurship development training. At the moment I think we provide three types of training: motorcycle maintenance. then we have K food training, and the third is regarding trade. And in that stage we also provide financial literacy education for the migrant workers' families. So those who have provided us with their information regarding their family, through that we provide their families with financial literacy education so that they can better use the money sent.
Marty Logan:Okay. That makes sense. And so the, these different streams that you described, the motorcycle training, the K-food, they're starting that in Korea, and then when they come back, are they continuing the same subject?
Simran Shah:We recently conducted the K-food training over here in Nepal itself. This was for the migrants who've completed the work terms and returned. And this was a pilot training; after this we'll see if it can happen again or not.
Marty Logan:I might be confused here. So this is a reintegration project, but what you've described so far, most of it is happening in Korea.
Simran Shah:No. The first stage is basically financial literacy, vision establishment, and suicide prevention education training. Then the second training that we provide, which is in Korea, is skill development training, and entrepreneurship training. In the reintegration stage, we provide entrepreneurship training, we connect them to mentors and then we connect them to reintegration information training. And we try to connect them with the startup funding that we provide as well. So we, try to co cover all the stages. We try to focus on before they leave, while they're in Korea and after they come back.
Marty Logan:Yeah, it sounds very comprehensive actually. I'm a bit surprised. And how long to complete the programme? So you start before you leave? Yeah. And then, most people are there five years
Simran Shah:Five to 10 years.
Marty Logan:Five to 10 years. So then you come back and then reintegration at home. How long is that part of it?
Simran Shah:The trainings we provide are, like a three, four month programme. It depends on which they're interested in so they can avail it accordingly. The entrepreneurship training is like three to six months. And the reintegration information training we have, we try doing it once every two months., We provide them with knowledge about different sectors. We try to call experts from certain fields and then they provide the training.
Marty Logan:Just to go back quickly to something you said earlier, are there enough spaces for the demand to take this reintegration training or are you getting more applications than you can accommodate?
Simran Shah:Sometimes some of the courses are really popular but we have like, strict criteria and most of them we have a set number of participants that we, we can accommodate for. We are asked a lot of questions about that, how to increase our, participant size basically in most of the programmes.
Marty Logan:Well that's a good sign if it's popular, right. Okay, so I wanted to ask you about this report that was done in 2024 by the Korean International Cooperation Agency and others. And it's based on some surveys of Nepali workers who had come back from South Korea. It's, it's a big report. There's lots of findings in it. Just focusing on this one thing, it found that 60% of the workers who came back from Korea were planning to remigrate because they weren't satisfied with the work, the training, they were able to do here in Nepal once they returned. I know this isn't only a factor when it comes to South Korea, right? I mean, not everyone comes home and suddenly becomes an entrepreneur or gets a job. It's not a magic button that they're able to push, but 60% planning to again go abroad is, it seems like a big number. Institutionally, do you have a reaction to that number or? Were you surprised by that number?
Simran Shah:Honestly, I'm not really surprised by that number. Speaking of the Korean context,'cause this is a Korean project). South Korea at least in the recent years, has been a very popular destination for Nepali migrant workers, right. A lot of like migrant workers who have finished their term, they have a lot of expectations and high hopes after coming home, right. But the reality over here, basically the pay gap and the limited industrial sectors, they can go into, that creates a huge challenge for them. So rather than facing these challenges and the basically different lifestyle over here, they prefer to go back to Korea or other countries. And that is why I, we believe, we the KOICA project, believe that the reintegration project like ours is very important at this stage'cause we just don't, provide them with reemployment opportunities, we try to emphasize on their skills transfer. The main goal is to create an environment where Nepali workers can bring their knowledge and skills they've developed in while in Korea and, transition that into the Nepali communities. Basically, if we can strengthen this ecosystem, Nepal will not be just like a one stop before going abroad again. We can actually have opportunities where people can thrive in. So we are trying to work towards that at the moment.
Marty Logan:Okay. A big challenge. So I want to ask you, and I'm not asking you to be critical of the government, but I think it's a really obvious question, right. Which is, governments in Nepal have been criticized, first, for the fact that so many people feel like they have to go abroad to earn their livelihood, and then second, for the fact that when they get back, or just in general, there just aren't enough good jobs for people. And I think mainly this is directed at the federal government, the central government. but now of course we have the other levels of, of government as well. So the question is your project is doing this work to try to improve that situation for these mostly young people who are trying to earn their livelihoods. What role are the various governments playing with you in doing this?
Simran Shah:So the government of Nepal is at the very heart of this project'cause this project is a bilateral initiative between the Korean government and the Nepali government, which is being implemented through KOICA. At present there are around 753 employment service centres across the nation, right? And these employment service centres are key resources for returning migrants who are searching for jobs or entrepreneurship opportunities or like access to any kind of reintegration programmes, right. And we we try to like work together with them, wherever possible, to carry out our project activities and trainings so that we can reach more returnees from Korea, right. The government basically ensures the project's work is sustainable for the long run. After all, the long-term support for returnee can't solely rely on international projects and organizations, it needs strong government ownership for it to really work in the long run.
Marty Logan:Right. Become sustainable as sustainable long run. Yeah. I wanted also to ask about your project and how it supports men and women, because obviously both men and women are going abroad to work, including to Korea. More men than women for most destinations, and I know for South Korea as well. But when it comes to your project and the reintegration focus, what is it doing differently for men and women? Or, I guess really the question is, what is it doing for women specifically?
Simran Shah:At the moment there are a lot more like male migrant workers going to Korea. And in comparison, there's only like two to 3% of women who go as migrant workers to Korea. And this is because most of the employers are like small and medium sized enterprises. Since the work is a bit tough, they look for and prefer men workers, but like, where in some sectors they want detailed and delicate work, they usually prefer or recruit women. And at present, I don't think there's any separate gender specific programme going on, but our project does try to make the reintegration initiatives more gender inclusive. As I was saying, the recent K-food, technical training for potential entrepreneurs, the participant ratio was one-to-one. So there were seven male participants and seven female participants.
Marty Logan:I know that women face unique issues when they come back. Mm-hmm. A lot of it is social cultural kind of issues about what they might have been doing when they were overseas, and that's not included in your pre-departure kind of? I think that's included in the normal EPS training programme. Oh, we also provide try to promote like success stories of returnees. They Shahre their success stories so that this story can help and motivate the ongoing batches. Okay. And let me jump on that idea of success stories. I know that you published a book not long ago with some success stories.
Simran Shah:That was the embassy.
Marty Logan:Oh, that was the embassy, yeah. Oh, okay. Okay. So no book, but I know that you have an app. So tell me about the app.
Simran Shah:Okay, so we recently developed, an app called HaMi app, H-A-M-I, HaMi app, right? it is basically an informational manual, providing information relevant to the, to the migrants,, into the three stages that we work in. So, before departure, then during their time abroad from the migration stage and for the reintegration. And in this application, you can also connect with other migrant workers. We have a section called the community where you can talk to each other as well. And you can also ask questions directly to us regarding any difficulty you are facing or regarding the project activities as well.
Marty Logan:Okay. And I know it's quite new, like a few months.
Simran Shah:We launched it around June or July this year.
Marty Logan:Okay. And is everyone downloading it as far as you know?
Simran Shah:We introduced that in the project induction stage, so before the people leave or finish the orientation training programme, we try to connect them with the app. We're promoting it at the moment as well. It's been about three to four months, so we're still hoping more people to download it at the moment.
Marty Logan:Okay... And is it something I would use when I get back to Nepal as well? Is is it useful for that stage?
Simran Shah:Yes. And we also try to connect them with other, like returnees, as well as relevant government bodies handling reintegration programmes as well.
Marty Logan:That sounds promising. So we talked earlier about that report and that 60% figure of people who wanted to remigrate. So the question is, over the life of the project to date, do you have any indication that you're helping to maybe reduce that 60% figure? The people you're coming in contact with, are some of them more likely to stay in Nepal rather than remigrate because of the work that you're doing with them? Or is that too big a expectation?
Simran Shah:it's not too big of an expectation. I positively believe that our project is making an impact in helping them having other options than just remigrating. We are trying to create an environment where migrant workers can share the knowledge and experiences learned in Korea and apply that over here in Nepal, right. And the end goal is obviously to create like a stable stage wise reintegration for migrants returning from Nepal sorry, from Korea. I think we're getting there. We're getting there in terms of like the work and activities we're doing at the moment.
Marty Logan:Thank you.
Simran Shah:Thank you.
Marty Logan:Thanks again to Simran Shah of the K-HaMi Project for sharing time to chat about her work and to Khushi Rai at Policy Entrepreneurs Inc for recording the episode. Let me know what you think by clicking on the Send a Text link at the top of the notes to this episode. And please be patient if the next episode takes longer than usual to appear in your feed it will be something different recorded here in Canada. Finally, I want to give a shout out to Saroj Shrestha, a friend who I didn't know even listened to the show. He told me recently that he thinks he hasn't missed a single one of our 109 episodes to date. Thanks, Saroj! I'll talk to you next time.
